Curse

Super Igor · Feb 27, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

No [smiter's boon]??? o____O

It must have [smiter's boon] such a nice boost in healing.

Lusciious · Feb 28, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

i personally think [smither's boon] would just be a waste of a skill slot. the extra 20-30 heal probably won't save your life.

Mr Emu · Feb 28, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

so it appears our final judgment is this:

RoJway-Wars and Dervs (sins optionally)
erfshakuur, wounding, being a melee, etc all synergize with RoJ heroes, sins are better off with dway

Sabway-Paras and Rangers (melees optionally)
these classes aren't casters, so dway is a bad option, but aren't melee, so RoJ is bad too. The solution is sabway with splinter, minion walls, and other good shit. Also, both of these profs can run SY! fairly efficiently.

Dway-Casters, Assassins
All five caster oriented professions have enough energy and synergizing skills to make a decent dway, sins get high lvl deadly arts skills

hunter · Mar 01, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Nop, because discordway is much safer and kills faster than RoJway even with warriors.

Discordway simply requires more skill to use with melee than casters. Even though the caster variant is still better, discordway with melee > RoJway

Revelations · Mar 01, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

No [smiter's boon]??? o____O

It must have [smiter's boon] such a nice boost in healing.

Read please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

As for variants in monk builds...Smiter's Boon for a bit of redbarring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

so it appears our final judgment is this:
etc.

IMO typifying which of those builds belongs to various classes is a pointless exercise. They can all work effectively with all professions depending on variants, player build, and to an extent playstyle. GENERALLY and I use the term very loosely RoJ is better with a frontliner, Discord is better with a caster, and Sab is just good all round, BUT they are all incredibly flexible and will all work effectively regardless of the player.

Throw a minion bomber in RoJway and you immediately massively increase its defence and reorient it somewhat further towards a caster player character. Run grasping earth on an Erf Shakur bar and discordway immediately becomes far more synergistic with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

Nop, because discordway is much safer and kills faster than RoJway even with warriors.

Discordway simply requires more skill to use with melee than casters. Even though the caster variant is still better, discordway with melee > RoJway

Though I don't doubt the power and of discordway (afk is good), if you micro RoJway it has the potential to deal far more damage than discord. Clump foes up and let those cannons rip. Discord wont take out a clump of 7 or 8 HM enemies in 6 seconds flat. This is, however at a major cost to defence, as RoJ monks cant take too much defence without becoming majorly redundant. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

daze · Mar 01, 2009, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

loosely RoJ is better with a frontliner, Discord is better with a caster, and Sab is just good all round,

QFT best quote ever..

Super Igor · Mar 01, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Though I don't doubt the power and of discordway (afk is good), if you micro RoJway it has the potential to deal far more damage than discord. Clump foes up and let those cannons rip. Discord wont take out a clump of 7 or 8 HM enemies in 6 seconds flat. This is, however at a major cost to defence, as RoJ monks cant take too much defence without becoming majorly redundant. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

then you have no idea what discord is about, discord is not an afk build.

byteme! · Mar 01, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

then you have no idea what discord is about, discord is not an afk build.

Depending on the size of mobs, who you're facing, and whether you're equipped or not any hero setup has the "potential" to do things for you while you afk.

It's all circumstantial. Discordway isn't the best way to afk nor can it do every corner of GW for you. But in the right places it can.

Super Igor · Mar 01, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

That made no sense, you have to apply the primer yourself because heroes dont understand it and you have to at least start attacking to make them lock on a target. Ofc. you can go afk with anything but Discord is a bad afk build.

Think RoJ or Sab.

Mr Emu · Mar 01, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

IMO typifying which of those builds belongs to various classes is a pointless exercise. They can all work effectively with all professions depending on variants, player build, and to an extent playstyle. GENERALLY and I use the term very loosely RoJ is better with a frontliner, Discord is better with a caster, and Sab is just good all round, BUT they are all incredibly flexible and will all work effectively regardless of the player.

I would contest that while each build archetype CAN be adapted to any class, and run effectively, a fully optimized war+RoJ build would be more effective than a fully optimized war+discord, and an ele+discord would be better than ele+RoJ for example. Due to this increase in effectiveness, it would make more sense to use the hero build optimized to your class except in extenuating circumstances.

Eragon Zarroc · Mar 01, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

run sabway or discord-way while running a d-slash, save yourselves warrior build. You'll be able to pump out decent dmg for a warrior, protect ur heros with save yourselves, and the necro teams have become that basic standard for easy hero builds that work well. all these builds you can find posted all over the place.

Revelations · Mar 02, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

That made no sense, you have to apply the primer yourself because heroes dont understand it

Pretty sure that heroes are capable of applying hexes and conditions themselves. And they spam discord like mental even without you calling a target, as long as it meets the condition. Just because you run the standard AP/YMLaD bar doesn't mean thats the only player bar compatible with discord.

As many have mentioned with discord and sab the heroes do all the work for you. I've vanquished a fair few areas with Discord necs and an empty bar. Also, its not as good an afk build as Sabway, but its far superior to RoJ for it. RoJ is pretty terrible to go afk with actually.

daze · Mar 02, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Pretty sure that heroes are capable of applying hexes and conditions themselves. And they spam discord like mental even without you calling a target, as long as it meets the condition. Just because you run the standard AP/YMLaD bar doesn't mean thats the only player bar compatible with discord.

As many have mentioned with discord and sab the heroes do all the work for you. I've vanquished a fair few areas with Discord necs and an empty bar. Also, its not as good an afk build as Sabway, but its far superior to RoJ for it. RoJ is pretty terrible to go afk with actually.

Sorry, but this is BS. lots of BS
If you AFK Discordway, then your heroes dont lock on to the same target. Even with an empty skill bar, if you dont focus your heroes on one enemy, they will all do their own thing attacking whoever they please. True, you can run discord with an empty bar. It does run like crap when you arent applying the conditions and/or hexes. And if you are just afk the whole time, it runs like even crappier crap. Only an idiot would double gimp himself like that.
Olias: "Im casting [[putrid bile] on enemy monk"
Livia: "Im casting [[enfeebling blood] on enemy warrior"
Master of Whispers: "ROFL, you fail"

LoL you could probably run 8 mending frenzy wammos with your face glued to the screen and do better than AFK discordway.

hunter · Mar 02, 2009, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Sorry, but this is BS. lots of BS
If you AFK Discordway, then your heroes dont lock on to the same target. Even with an empty skill bar, if you dont focus your heroes on one enemy, they will all do their own thing attacking whoever they please. True, you can run discord with an empty bar. It does run like crap when you arent applying the conditions and/or hexes. And if you are just afk the whole time, it runs like even crappier crap. Only an idiot would double gimp himself like that.
Olias: "Im casting [[putrid bile] on enemy monk"
Livia: "Im casting [[enfeebling blood] on enemy warrior"
Master of Whispers: "ROFL, you fail"

LoL you could probably run 8 mending frenzy wammos with your face glued to the screen and do better than AFK discordway.

I think his point was that if you bring enough AoE hexes and conditions, the heroes will do the job for you. When you plan on afking, you bring [suffering], which puts hexes on basically everyone around. Conditions are easy enough to apply as it is so its not problem. Sure, your build will be much slower than with a caller or someone who can provide at least 1 type of condition himself, but it will nevertheless pretty much run itself.

And yeah Discord/sabway > RoJ for pretty much anything.

daze · Mar 02, 2009, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

I think his point was that if you bring enough AoE hexes and conditions, the heroes will do the job for you. When you plan on afking, you bring [suffering], which puts hexes on basically everyone around. Conditions are easy enough to apply as it is so its not problem. Sure, your build will be much slower than with a caller or someone who can provide at least 1 type of condition himself, but it will nevertheless pretty much run itself.

And yeah Discord/sabway > RoJ for pretty much anything.

That would be a good point if the range for [suffering] were a bit wider, but sadly that is not the case. The range is "nearby" which is even smaller than "in the area" about the same distance that a fart can travel while outdoors.

when melee is targeted with [[enfeebling blood] and the caster is target with [[suffering] unfortunately they will not stretch across the field and effectively mark all targets. Heroes are stupid this way. If you dont tell them what to do, they just do their own thing.

Im not sure if it works like this but i would imagine that [enfeebling blood] being weakness causing, would be prioritized by heroes to be casted upon melee for the skill to perform its role. And not so much casters.

Even minions tend to focus more of their forces on the front line (melee) while leaving casters on the back burner.

So i stand by my original point. Although Discordway has potential to be the most devestating H/H build available, AFK discordway is retarded. I mean jeez, how lazy and stupid do you have to be? If you want to gimp your team by not packing conditions and hexes in your bar, at least point your heroes at the target.

Hanging Man · Mar 02, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Personally I think that Discord or Sabway would be more preferred if you are a melee.

Mainly for reasons already stated, because they have additional hexes that would benefit a melee character.

[skill]barbs[/skill] and [skill]mark of pain[/skill] do wonders

hell, for shits and giggles we'll even throw in a lil [skill]splinter weapon[/skill]
just make sure you call targets

Kenzo Skunk · Mar 02, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

It might be a tricky one whatever you choose - roj or sabway, since you are the one rushing in, or pulling, and your heroes (be them necros or monks) are squishies that have only 60AL. In your case, sabway might be better choice because of minions that to some extent protect your heroes and backline. AI routine often goes behind you to "check" if there are other targets with lower armor to attack them first. You can go with roj too, of course, it`s just that you`ll have to micro a bit more and to flag your heroes.

Super Igor · Mar 02, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanging Man

Personally I think that Discord or Sabway would be more preferred if you are a melee.

Mainly for reasons already stated, because they have additional hexes that would benefit a melee character.

[skill]barbs[/skill] and [skill]mark of pain[/skill] do wonders

hell, for shits and giggles we'll even throw in a lil [skill]splinter weapon[/skill]
just make sure you call targets

Sabway still cant kill one foe as fast and efficient as Discord and that all that matters thats why I would give up physical damage for AP calling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Im not sure if it works like this but i would imagine that [enfeebling blood] being weakness causing, would be prioritized by heroes to be casted upon melee for the skill to perform its role. And not so much casters.

yeah, there was time when they spammed it all over the place and it was great but A-net nerfed it by "improving" hero AI on it. ;o

Revelations · Mar 03, 2009, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

I think his point was that if you bring enough AoE hexes and conditions, the heroes will do the job for you...

Yes. This is what I meant. I specifically said it was worse than sab afk. If you throw in a few aoe hexes like suffering(stupidly short recharge is what makes it effective, in addition to the aoe.), shadow of fear, and even - despite its recharge - meekness isnt awful. Just ping the most dangerous target of a group, minimize, and do your thing. Stuff ends up dead, your party doesn't. Your heroes don't even need to attack the same target unless there's enemy monks, so you just ping those first as you go afk. After that they'll just spam discord everywhere. Run with multiple copies of putrid bile if going afk too.

I agree its awful compared to actually being there and calling targets/applying hexes yourself, but that doesn't change the fact it still works, and works relatively well.

byteme! · Mar 03, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

If my soul intention is to have my heroes work for me while I afk from time to time who cares if I'm calling targets or not? I'm afk for crying out loud. Nor should I care if they don't attack the same target. The fact they are doing anything at all is win-win. This goes for Discord/Sab/Roj/any other build under the sun. If things die and my heroes don't then it's working as intended. I don't know why anyone would even care what builds are better or not for afk'ing. You're afk!!!! Hello?!

Over analyzing something as trivial as this makes me laugh.